Nothing special today kids....just winding down on anotehr great fall Sunday and getting geared for a first day of work tomorrow with a new and exciting team.
I trust all had a great weekend.....and let's move that forward to a splendid Monday!
-Papa Skogie
Hey...I'm Justin. I'm a husband, devoted father, and I often have too much to say. Maybe if I write more, I will talk less? Maybe not. Either way, I hope you read, enjoy and share your thoughts. Family, funny, sports, and anything outside is exciting to me and I hope to share as much as I can. Be well, work hard, laugh often, and make good decisions!
Sunday, October 14, 2007
Tuesday, October 09, 2007
WebEx: Where not to Interview
A job hunt....is just that. Similar to my fellow Wisconsinites who brave the cold and elements to venture into the woods in late November to find that legendary buck with a larger than normal rack.....finding a job is a lot of waiting, hoping, and (at times) involves drinking a great deal.
Since mid August I have been applying to, interviewing for, and meeting with numerous people to lock down that perfect job. Having been employed steadily since 2001, and never truly having been through the 'traditional' interview process, I was both disgusted and impressed with many firms and people.
My goal here is not to bash companies or people, but to make others aware of the true intentions I believe hiring people/firms have....based solely on my experiences. There's no way in hell each person's experiences will be the same....but I hope this can help someone.
First of all, consult with a recruiter or two. Although my overall impression of the recruiting business is not a good one, some of these people truly care about your efforts and the clients they represent. Try to find someone that works for themselves (contractor, or own their own firm)....they tend to work harder for you and prepare you better. In fact, I was lucky to have worked with a woman in VA (Jane Snipes) who was referred to me by a colleague. Although Jane could not help me directly with placement, she was EXTREMELY helpful with my resume organization/creation......if anyone would like her assistance, contact me, and I will arrange for an introduction....she is truly a wonderful person. However, I also spoke with, shared emails with, and actually relied upon a number of so called recruiters who never called back, never followed through on calls or verbal promises, and whom set up a time to have a phone interview that never happened. People....all people....listen....if you tell someone you are going to call them back for any reason, or regardless of a decision, CALL. I have been in sales for almost 8 years now...even if you are calling me back to tell me I am an asshole and the worst salesperson in history...it would be NICE!
Interviews....ahhh, so much fun! I actually enjoy interviews (at least the first 5-6). Speaking candidly about ones self is not easy...and finding a way to do so effectively, without sounding like a jackass is tough. I found that trying to ask as many questions DURING those being asked of you helps. You are a real person (I assume), so there's no way you can effectively share with someone who you are without interactive conversation (two way). Most of my interviews went well, honestly all but one. There was one interview in particular that I could tell when I walked in the door was not going to go well......I just knew that it wasn't the place for me. Not to sound like a prick, but when you feel/know/believe you are 100% more qualified to do a job than the hiring manager, that's a good sign to RUN.
Those interviews that went well for me usually ended up with a second call/meeting. Only a few times were there more than 2 correspondences....and in those cases there was always talk of an offer of some kind. After a while though, the process of asking some of the same questions over and over again gets really OLD FAST.
One particular process, which was long (WAY TOO LONG), and tedious in my book was WebEx. I was told by numerous sales people that working at WebEx was not so great. I went into the process with them (they contacted me about my resume early in my process) with an open mind.....and remained positive and willing to learn/listen. My first contact was with an HR/recruiting person who was helpful, nice to talk with, and encouraging/excited about where she worked. She arranged for a phone conversation with a hiring manager (whom she referred to as 'green') (not a good sign if you ask me). I spoke with said manager for 10 minutes tops, where he spoke so quickly that I am sure he drank half a Folder's bean field by 10am that morning. He closed by asking me to review a website or two (WebEx partners) and that we would have a more formal phone interview the following week.
Not only did this manager not contact me to confirm the date/time even after I emailed him and left a vm (I had to call him), he started the call (once we came to connect) with some "role playing". Ok, role playing is great for those of you that are graduating from college and preparing for your first interviews....but role playing is about as junior a sales tactic as there is. Asking someone to role play selling you a product they reviewed online for an hour or two is a train wreck waiting to happen.....and even should it go very well, tells nothing of one's ability to sell. The so called manager closed the call with his unimpressed thoughts, and confusion as to why I didn't try to close him on the phone immediately. Response: if this was role playing (and supposedly a "warm call", why would I close you when I know nothing about pricing, terms, contractual processes, and/or legal ramifications? I guess when the HR lady referred to this person as 'green' she really meant completely lacking true managerial skills.
Moving on with WebEx, even though my call did not go well....I was asked to apply with another group....because they believed I had the skills and value they were looking for. I then spoke with another manager....over the phone first. This gent was much more in line with my vision (I believe my vision is close to reality...really) of true management. He was structured, honest, and motivated to have his team succeed. He was also very frank with me about the opening and expectations. We agreed to meet in their offices where I would have a chance to share time with his team, managers, etc. All of this was arranged, I had to take another web related step, answer questions and basically apply all over again (terrible process really). Note: keep in mind, through this entire process, every person I spoke with talked more about Cisco (Cisco bought WebEx earlier this year) than they did WebEx. Kool-Aid was flowing like the Colorado River 500 years ago.....
I went to the Sac offices of WebEx ready to speak with three specific people. The first guy I spoke with was cool....no BS just getting to know one another type conversations....numbers, comp plan, expectations and personal info.....really he was the best part of the process. Then his Director (same guy from second phone interview). Good guy really....made some money I am sure, successful, but not driven enough for me to rely on as a leader. Lastly....your predictable, "I made $300K here in one year and you can too if you work as hard as I did..." kind of guy.
At the end of the day...I knew I wasn't going to work there regardless of the outcome....however, the best part of it all is what happens on my way out the door. I spoke again with the same HR lady that started me off in the process. We walked out together to the parking lot, having great conversations about numerous things. She made a point to tell me how much people enjoyed chatting with me and that I would have their next step by the next day (this was a Thursday). Friday came and went...Monday too. (again, being in sales for a long time, you give Mondays and Fridays away). Tuesday came and went as well....no call, no email, no nothing.
When Thursday came, I sent an email to the HR lady simply to inquire about the process and any feedback....nothing came back. Two weeks went by and I didn't care so much about the job or the feedback at all, I simply wanted the principle of the situation justified. They never returned a call, email or anything, not even to tell me to go to hell. I spent at least 3 full days of my life on the WebEx interview process....and they didn't have the decency to even tell me I wasn't worth calling back or being offered a job. For a company that spoke so highly of their new parent company, and occassionally of themselves, they sure need a strong lesson in professionalism.
At the end of the day folks....job hunting can be as cruel as deer hunting. You can hunt, search, track and dedicate yourself to the process for weeks...and come up with nothing. You can however enjoy your time, learn, and keep trecking.....eventually your buck will rise up out of the brush and BANG!
To show I am not simply a bashing blogger....I did interview with some great firms with great people. Most notably, Palamida out of San Francisco. When they said they would call, they did. When they weren't sure if they could move forward with an offer, they were honest (and called). When we met, they were bright, strong, dedicated, and professional. The people at Travidia were also very nice (although the job just wasn't even close to offering enough in compensation). At the end, I found a great job with an even better group of people.....for now they will remain un-named....but believe me...you'll hear a lot about us very soon!!!!
Good luck job hunters....and no matter what, don't settle, or let some so called manager/recruiter tell you what your value is.....chances are there are folks out there that have a lot less to offer and have gotten farther on pure Bullshit!
Since mid August I have been applying to, interviewing for, and meeting with numerous people to lock down that perfect job. Having been employed steadily since 2001, and never truly having been through the 'traditional' interview process, I was both disgusted and impressed with many firms and people.
My goal here is not to bash companies or people, but to make others aware of the true intentions I believe hiring people/firms have....based solely on my experiences. There's no way in hell each person's experiences will be the same....but I hope this can help someone.
First of all, consult with a recruiter or two. Although my overall impression of the recruiting business is not a good one, some of these people truly care about your efforts and the clients they represent. Try to find someone that works for themselves (contractor, or own their own firm)....they tend to work harder for you and prepare you better. In fact, I was lucky to have worked with a woman in VA (Jane Snipes) who was referred to me by a colleague. Although Jane could not help me directly with placement, she was EXTREMELY helpful with my resume organization/creation......if anyone would like her assistance, contact me, and I will arrange for an introduction....she is truly a wonderful person. However, I also spoke with, shared emails with, and actually relied upon a number of so called recruiters who never called back, never followed through on calls or verbal promises, and whom set up a time to have a phone interview that never happened. People....all people....listen....if you tell someone you are going to call them back for any reason, or regardless of a decision, CALL. I have been in sales for almost 8 years now...even if you are calling me back to tell me I am an asshole and the worst salesperson in history...it would be NICE!
Interviews....ahhh, so much fun! I actually enjoy interviews (at least the first 5-6). Speaking candidly about ones self is not easy...and finding a way to do so effectively, without sounding like a jackass is tough. I found that trying to ask as many questions DURING those being asked of you helps. You are a real person (I assume), so there's no way you can effectively share with someone who you are without interactive conversation (two way). Most of my interviews went well, honestly all but one. There was one interview in particular that I could tell when I walked in the door was not going to go well......I just knew that it wasn't the place for me. Not to sound like a prick, but when you feel/know/believe you are 100% more qualified to do a job than the hiring manager, that's a good sign to RUN.
Those interviews that went well for me usually ended up with a second call/meeting. Only a few times were there more than 2 correspondences....and in those cases there was always talk of an offer of some kind. After a while though, the process of asking some of the same questions over and over again gets really OLD FAST.
One particular process, which was long (WAY TOO LONG), and tedious in my book was WebEx. I was told by numerous sales people that working at WebEx was not so great. I went into the process with them (they contacted me about my resume early in my process) with an open mind.....and remained positive and willing to learn/listen. My first contact was with an HR/recruiting person who was helpful, nice to talk with, and encouraging/excited about where she worked. She arranged for a phone conversation with a hiring manager (whom she referred to as 'green') (not a good sign if you ask me). I spoke with said manager for 10 minutes tops, where he spoke so quickly that I am sure he drank half a Folder's bean field by 10am that morning. He closed by asking me to review a website or two (WebEx partners) and that we would have a more formal phone interview the following week.
Not only did this manager not contact me to confirm the date/time even after I emailed him and left a vm (I had to call him), he started the call (once we came to connect) with some "role playing". Ok, role playing is great for those of you that are graduating from college and preparing for your first interviews....but role playing is about as junior a sales tactic as there is. Asking someone to role play selling you a product they reviewed online for an hour or two is a train wreck waiting to happen.....and even should it go very well, tells nothing of one's ability to sell. The so called manager closed the call with his unimpressed thoughts, and confusion as to why I didn't try to close him on the phone immediately. Response: if this was role playing (and supposedly a "warm call", why would I close you when I know nothing about pricing, terms, contractual processes, and/or legal ramifications? I guess when the HR lady referred to this person as 'green' she really meant completely lacking true managerial skills.
Moving on with WebEx, even though my call did not go well....I was asked to apply with another group....because they believed I had the skills and value they were looking for. I then spoke with another manager....over the phone first. This gent was much more in line with my vision (I believe my vision is close to reality...really) of true management. He was structured, honest, and motivated to have his team succeed. He was also very frank with me about the opening and expectations. We agreed to meet in their offices where I would have a chance to share time with his team, managers, etc. All of this was arranged, I had to take another web related step, answer questions and basically apply all over again (terrible process really). Note: keep in mind, through this entire process, every person I spoke with talked more about Cisco (Cisco bought WebEx earlier this year) than they did WebEx. Kool-Aid was flowing like the Colorado River 500 years ago.....
I went to the Sac offices of WebEx ready to speak with three specific people. The first guy I spoke with was cool....no BS just getting to know one another type conversations....numbers, comp plan, expectations and personal info.....really he was the best part of the process. Then his Director (same guy from second phone interview). Good guy really....made some money I am sure, successful, but not driven enough for me to rely on as a leader. Lastly....your predictable, "I made $300K here in one year and you can too if you work as hard as I did..." kind of guy.
At the end of the day...I knew I wasn't going to work there regardless of the outcome....however, the best part of it all is what happens on my way out the door. I spoke again with the same HR lady that started me off in the process. We walked out together to the parking lot, having great conversations about numerous things. She made a point to tell me how much people enjoyed chatting with me and that I would have their next step by the next day (this was a Thursday). Friday came and went...Monday too. (again, being in sales for a long time, you give Mondays and Fridays away). Tuesday came and went as well....no call, no email, no nothing.
When Thursday came, I sent an email to the HR lady simply to inquire about the process and any feedback....nothing came back. Two weeks went by and I didn't care so much about the job or the feedback at all, I simply wanted the principle of the situation justified. They never returned a call, email or anything, not even to tell me to go to hell. I spent at least 3 full days of my life on the WebEx interview process....and they didn't have the decency to even tell me I wasn't worth calling back or being offered a job. For a company that spoke so highly of their new parent company, and occassionally of themselves, they sure need a strong lesson in professionalism.
At the end of the day folks....job hunting can be as cruel as deer hunting. You can hunt, search, track and dedicate yourself to the process for weeks...and come up with nothing. You can however enjoy your time, learn, and keep trecking.....eventually your buck will rise up out of the brush and BANG!
To show I am not simply a bashing blogger....I did interview with some great firms with great people. Most notably, Palamida out of San Francisco. When they said they would call, they did. When they weren't sure if they could move forward with an offer, they were honest (and called). When we met, they were bright, strong, dedicated, and professional. The people at Travidia were also very nice (although the job just wasn't even close to offering enough in compensation). At the end, I found a great job with an even better group of people.....for now they will remain un-named....but believe me...you'll hear a lot about us very soon!!!!
Good luck job hunters....and no matter what, don't settle, or let some so called manager/recruiter tell you what your value is.....chances are there are folks out there that have a lot less to offer and have gotten farther on pure Bullshit!
Sunday, October 07, 2007
Bishop's Pumpkin Farm; A Great Start to October!
OCTOBER: goblins, ghosts, harvests, cool fresh air, beautiful colors, change of seasons, World Series, Homecomings, etc.I've always loved October. For a sports fan it doesn't get much better. The playoffs are in full swing in the majors (GO Indians!!!), (Cubs go home), the NFL is a quarter of the way through the season and teams are solidifying themselves, the leaves are changing, high schools are preparing for homecomings, the air is cool, and for those that enjoy it, the NBA gets started in camp.
Having lived nearly all my life in the great cheeselands of WI, I especially have love for the farmers who harvest much of their efforts in late Sept. early Oct. Now living in CA, the same is true. Wineries/Vineyards have trimmed the fruit from the vines in preparation for this years vintage....possibly a great one! Peaches, apples, walnuts, sunflowers, all strongly represented here in the valleys are picked processed and prepared for our liking and purchase.
We Skogen's began celebrating the fall season yesterday at a VERY COOL place called Bishop's Pumpkin Farm in Wheatland, CA. What a great place!!! $8 for parking (sounds crazy expensive I know...BUT)....there's no other admission fees and there's plenty to do for kids that doesn't cost a dime (pig races, 30 minute show, jungle gym like contraptions to climb on/over/through, classic tractors to climb on and pretend to ride, petting areas (goats, pigs, cows, donkey, etc), corn maze, and of course a hay ride through the pumpkin patch....where, mind you, every pumpkin is as big or bigger than the one pictured above! NO LIE!)
Also offered for a fee (nominal really) is a train ride (real train, tracks, and sites to see), pony rides (we'll do that next time, the line never seemed to move), and the harvest bakery which smelled like I can only hope heaven does should I make it there. They make all of the baked goods with the home grown goods on site. The pumpkin pie was amazing, apple/pumpkin muffins (I just swallowed one now...and another one is within reach), fresh squeezed lemonade, literally squeezed in front of you, in your cup, roasted sweet corn, and an October tradition, Carmel apples!!!
Anyone close to this area must visit this attraction. Frankly, Wheatland doesn't offer anything else, but this place is a gem for all to enjoy. I would STRONGLY recommend this place to anyone.
All this talk of fall, food, and crsip air must yield some football chatter too. The Badgers dropped a game to Illinois yesterday (literally dropped). Two bad INT's, a missed FG, and continued bad coaching on the "D" side of the ball cost the Badgers a top 3 bid. Someone please explain to me how Bret B was such a "D" genius last year, and with 9 returning starters he cannot stop ANYTHING at all??? Two weeks in a row one play beat UW. Last week against MSU it was the swing pass to the flat (RB or WR). This week it was Illinois option from the shotgun, split formation. This is football 101 kids...not just I, but may a couch coaches across the US could have made that adjustment. Bret B fails to make this happen and it bit him in the pumpkin this week....maybe costing UW a shot at the big one.
4 teams in the NFL remain undefeated, and all should stay that way in week 5. The Packers have the toughest test, but I am confident that they will win....and that they are just plain BETTER than CHICAGO on BOTH sides of the ball. That's right...forget stats/rankings, etc...the Packer's "D" has been better. My only fear is that the Pack will allow Hester to touch the ball on Special Teams. My advice to coach, DO NOT KICK TO HESTER!!!
Lastly...I must praise the D-Back of MLB....they did what I predicted they would do and rid the playoffs of the unworthy Cubs. Don't take this all to be bitter banter over the Brewers choking down the stretch (actually the Mets choked WOW, the Crew just phased out), I just didn't believe that any team from the NL Central belonged in the playoffs. The Cubs are not a good baseball team, and this will bode true again next year when the Brewers and Cards battle it out.
Enough for today....I am gearing up to watch my new favorite player (Vince Young) take on the Falcons. Don't sleep on this one kids...I see Atlanta covering the 7.5 point spread today, that new style is good for them, they cannot beat anyone in the trenches.
GO PACKERS!!!!!
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